Raced a 2004 Grand Prix GTP (Supercharged)

[ME2000]

Ok 5 mins ago me and my friend raced on a back road thats around 1/4 mile long or so (maybe longer). He's been nagging me to race and we finally did. Here are the stats for both cars.

<div align="center">2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (Supercharged)

3.8L V6 (OHV)
260 HP @ 5,200rpm
280 lb-ft @ 3,600rpm
Curb Weight (3,583 lbs)
4 spd auto (paddle shifters)
Fuel: 87 (Recommends 91 or higher)

2000 Mazda Millenia S (Supercharged)

2.3L V6 (DOHC)
210 HP @ 5,300rpm
210 lb-ft @ 3,500rpm
Curb Weight (3,355 lbs)
4 spd auto
Fuel: 91 or higher (Required)

The biggest difference is power. I'm just amazed @ how much power is squeeze out of the 2.3 compared to his oversized v6. Anyway I turned my TC off and we counted down and both punched it @ the same time. Crazy wheel spin from both of us and before I got off 1st gear he ends up ahead of me. He stays right in front of me for a few seconds then the millenia starts to catch up and I was closing in on him and he decides to brake and I almost flew past him and I was like "Why did you brake?" He was like "Don't want to test my brakes." I was like "We both have good brakes. Mine are stiff" He was like "Well I didn't wanna take any chances running through the stop sign and into something. I stomped that ass." I was like "You got off the line quicker than me, but you didn't leave me. I was just about to hand that ass over to you too, but you decided to slow down on me." Long story short, he started to slow down when he noticed I was about to pass him.

So I need some answers here. Both cars are similar in stats. How come my milly wasn't left in the dust? He couldn't even get a car length ahead of me. I was right on his ass. His car is in mint condition and so is mine. His has 63K miles on it and mine has 53K miles on it. He just put some 18s (TSW Jarama Black rims) today with 245/45/18 and im riding stock with chrome S rims 215/50/17.

I knew he was going to take me off the line. For the 1st second of the race we were neck and neck and then vroom he jumps in front. Both s'chargers screaming loudly in the wind. You could hear us flying down the road. What I don't get is how he has much more power than me and both cars are stocked and he couldn't dust me like he said he could. My milly was about to win (or at least tie) the race.

Maybe its different tuning? Power band? Torque band? Something. He can do loads of performance to his gp but i can't to the milly. No aftermarket support. Either way it makes me itch for a CAI from Yel-low now. If only I had the dough. I'm just amazed that I was about to show him up. TC really gets in the way when its on. Turned it off b4 the race and turned it back on after the race. :P

The millenia is just an amazing car all the way around. I'm still shocked with the Performance. Most of todays V6's can shun right past it or thats what I thought until today.

EDIT: Both cars remained in D and were ran WOT. And both ran 91 octane. No performance modifications. Temp was around 55°F (13°C).

[MazdaMiester]

Ok 5 mins ago me and my friend raced on a back road thats around 1/4 mile long or so (maybe longer). He's been nagging me to race and we finally did. Here are the stats for both cars.

<div align="center">2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (Supercharged)

3.8L V6 (OHV)
260 HP @ 5,200rpm
280 lb-ft @ 3,600rpm
Curb Weight (3,583 lbs)
4 spd auto (paddle shifters)
Fuel: 87 (Recommends 91 or higher)

2000 Mazda Millenia S (Supercharged)

2.3L V6 (DOHC)
210 HP @ 5,300rpm
210 lb-ft @ 3,500rpm
Curb Weight (3,355 lbs)
4 spd auto
Fuel: 91 (Required)

The biggest difference is power. I'm just amazed @ how much power is squeeze out of the 2.3 compared to his oversized v6. Anyway I turned my TC off and we counted down and both punched it @ the same time. Crazy wheel spin from both of us and before I got off 1st gear he ends up ahead of me. He stays right in front of me for a few seconds then the millenia starts to catch up and I was closing in on him and he decides to brake and I almost flew past him and I was like "Why did you brake?" He was like "Don't want to test my brakes." I was like "We both have good brakes. Mine are stiff" He was like "Well I didn't wanna take any chances running through the stop sign and into something. I stomped that ass." I was like "You got off the line quicker than me, but you didn't leave me. I was just about to hand that ass over to you too, but you decided to slow down on me." Long story short, he started to slow down when he noticed I was about to pass him.

So I need some answers here. Both cars are similar in stats. How come my milly wasn't left in the dust? He couldn't even get a car length ahead of me. I was right on his ass. His car is in mint condition and so is mine. His has 63K miles on it and mine has 53K miles on it. He just put some 18s (TSW Jarama Black rims) today with 245/45/18 and im riding stock with chrome S rims 215/50/17.

I knew he was going to take me off the line. For the 1st second of the race we were neck and neck and then vroom he jumps in front. Both s'chargers screaming loudly in the wind. You could hear us flying down the road. What I don't get is how he has much more power than me and both cars are stocked and he couldn't dust me like he said he could. My milly was about to win (or at least tie) the race.

Maybe its different tuning? Power band? Torque band? Something. He can do loads of performance to his gp but i can't to the milly. No aftermarket support. Either way it makes me itch for a CAI from Yel-low now. If only I had the dough. I'm just amazed that I was about to show him up. TC really gets in the way when its on. Turned it off b4 the race and turned it back on after the race. :P

The millenia is just an amazing car all the way around. I'm still shocked with the Performance. Most of todays V6's can shun right past it or thats what I thought until today.

EDIT: Both cars remained in D and were ran WOT. And both ran 91 octane. No performance modifications. Temp was around 55°F (13°C).[/b][/quote]


thing is, his car is heavier and geared shorter. Thats one of the reasons he jumped you off of the line. those pushrod V6's make an assload of torque and power without having to floor it. theres literally not much difference between half and full throttle on those, the millenia is opposite. The millenia screams up top but doesnt have much down low. I actually find 1st gear a bit long for the amount of torque the engine makes at low RPM. the good thing about the millenia is the higher it revs, the more power it makes. That with longer gears is why you started to creep back. While there is no aftermarket support, that doesnt mean you can't get more power out of the car, theres several things that i plan on doing to my 01, none of which i've seen anyone do yet.
There are a lot of modern v6's that dust the MCE, the 3.8L pushrod v6 dates back to the 60's, its ancient technology actually. Its been through 3 series in FWD, and LOTS of rwd cars, oddfire pontiacs and such. Its kinda surprising that they still use that base engine. On a modern note, the nissan VQ35 is probably the most potent V6 that you can find. My friend has an 02 max 6spd and its faster than my friends mazdaspeed 6!

[ME2000]

thing is, his car is heavier and geared shorter. Thats one of the reasons he jumped you off of the line. those pushrod V6's make an assload of torque and power without having to floor it. theres literally not much difference between half and full throttle on those, the millenia is opposite. The millenia screams up top but doesnt have much down low. I actually find 1st gear a bit long for the amount of torque the engine makes at low RPM. the good thing about the millenia is the higher it revs, the more power it makes. That with longer gears is why you started to creep back. While there is no aftermarket support, that doesnt mean you can't get more power out of the car, theres several things that i plan on doing to my 01, none of which i've seen anyone do yet.
There are a lot of modern v6's that dust the MCE, the 3.8L pushrod v6 dates back to the 60's, its ancient technology actually. Its been through 3 series in FWD, and LOTS of rwd cars, oddfire pontiacs and such. Its kinda surprising that they still use that base engine. On a modern note, the nissan VQ35 is probably the most potent V6 that you can find. My friend has an 02 max 6spd and its faster than my friends mazdaspeed 6![/b]

**** yeah. The VQ series in the Nissan vehicles is AMAZING. Nissan really did it with the VQ seriers. Other companies should follow. Nissan got it right and is constantly improving it. I know it affectionately in the infiniti G35. I like how the exhaust sound too. The 350z/370z sounds AMAZING too. GM has that thing about using older technology. I just didn't think it would've made a difference. Thanks MazdaMiester. Since its getting colder the milly actually accelerates faster as the temp drops. For me it's a difference going from 80-90 degree weather to 30-50 degrees. Florida weather is so random, in the northern part. Heading down to central florida and south florida it's more of a gradual change. Today its around 50 degrees, but yesterday it was rainy sitting @ 80 degrees. Started cooling off after sunset.

EDIT: I'm a big fan of Japanese models anyway. People tell me I should support my country and buy a domestic. lol I was like but GM, Ford, and Chrysler has some improving to do with their cars. I've never owned a domestic, though I do want a tahoe. :P I really really want an acura TL (04-08) or a TSX (04-08). I like the new MDXs too. Hmm or maybe my dream Lexus IS300. I'm really digging the new Mazda6. If I got a little truck i'd want a B-series, even though its a ranger. Ooooh or a new frontier. I likes those. OOOOH or a Mustang! I likes those too. I like a lot of cars. Mostly Japanese though.

[Xedosman]

Another story undoubtably suited to make me slightly more unconvinced about never getting hold of a Miller Cycle

[millyowner]

Plausible. I go back to those dyno graphs posted a while back. Had a 2.5L and a 2.3L tested on the same machine and the 2.3L seemed to be putting a great deal more of its engine bhp to the wheels compared to the 2.5L. As if the drivetrain loss was less with the LJ transaxle compared to the 2.5L engine's GF transaxle. Maybe the Grand Prix has a less efficient slush box. Couple that with the regular unleaded in the Pontiac causing the ignition timing to be pulled and the additional curb weight and you have yourself an even race.

[jutu]

Couple of things.
1. Since street racing is illegal you really meant to say 'while on the track' LOL
2. You have enough power to spin your tires? Damm I have a 2.5 and it ain't gonna happen unless there's rain or snow.
3. I'd also bet that the mazda probablly makes more tq lower in the band giving you the ability to creep up on him.
4. We (at least on the 2.5) have a fairly tall 1st gear - his may have been shorter allowing him to get the jump but then due to the shorter second gear things started to even out.
5. There really is no comparisions btween the 2.3 and the VQ series engines. I believe that the 2.3 is a smaller version of the 2.5, if that is the case these are some of the smoothest v6's that I've ever driven. The torque curve is fairly linear and predictable making them easy to drive. They are infinitly smoother past 5k rpm than any VQ motor. Though the VQ may sound and perform better I think the KL's are well suited to these cars.

[Goliat6288]

i got my ass handed to me by an 01 nissan max autotragic... a friend has a 00 max 6speed with headers and straight piping, i would never race him. ill be hearin it till i left my job.

[ME2000]

Another story undoubtably suited to make me slightly more unconvinced about never getting hold of a Miller Cycle [/b]

Xedosman the miller cycle is really good. You know you want one. They're fun... come on... you know you want to get one...

Plausible. I go back to those dyno graphs posted a while back. Had a 2.5L and a 2.3L tested on the same machine and the 2.3L seemed to be putting a great deal more of its engine bhp to the wheels compared to the 2.5L. As if the drivetrain loss was less with the LJ transaxle compared to the 2.5L engine's GF transaxle. Maybe the Grand Prix has a less efficient slush box. Couple that with the regular unleaded in the Pontiac causing the ignition timing to be pulled and the additional curb weight and you have yourself an even race.[/b]

Wow you really know your way around a millenia. We both ran Premium in our cars. I'm just starting to wonder about his slush box now. I was really gona make him eat his words. My milly aint slow! He just won't admit it.

Couple of things.
1. Since street racing is illegal you really meant to say 'while on the track' LOL
2. You have enough power to spin your tires? Damm I have a 2.5 and it ain't gonna happen unless there's rain or snow.
3. I'd also bet that the mazda probablly makes more tq lower in the band giving you the ability to creep up on him.
4. We (at least on the 2.5) have a fairly tall 1st gear - his may have been shorter allowing him to get the jump but then due to the shorter second gear things started to even out.
5. There really is no comparisions btween the 2.3 and the VQ series engines. I believe that the 2.3 is a smaller version of the 2.5, if that is the case these are some of the smoothest v6's that I've ever driven. The torque curve is fairly linear and predictable making them easy to drive. They are infinitly smoother past 5k rpm than any VQ motor. Though the VQ may sound and perform better I think the KL's are well suited to these cars.[/b]

1. We were on the "track"... lol
2. Yeah I do have enough power to spin them. And if I wanted I could smoke them too (bad for the tranny. thats a no no). They did excellent and the road is dry.
3. Probably. It was more of a fast creep lol. Im still blown away.
4. IDK maybe. Don't know too much about the millenia. Learn everything from here. :w00t!:
5. Awesome!

i got my ass handed to me by an 01 nissan max autotragic... a friend has a 00 max 6speed with headers and straight piping, i would never race him. ill be hearin it till i left my job.[/b]

LOL its time to get you a well-maintained 2.3, ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!

[Saint_]

2nd gear of 2.3 is very tall. Few could keep up with it from 1-2 shift to 2-3 shift. The problem with the first is the limited boost. We need to address this issue somehow. I am sure with no boost limit and with a simple intake 2.3 can make 0-60 in 6.5-7 secs.

Fortunately we have race tracks all around here. There are lights at the highway enterances. There are two lanes drops to one lane immediately after the flag (light). Just like this one in the middle of the map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source...mp;t=k&z=18

When it turns green you can easily make a 0-60 drag race with the guy next to you I always do

Most cars just beat me in 1st gear but if I know the car next to me (if I am trying prolly I know) I keep calm knowing that I am gonna beat the **** out in the 2nd ) It is soo much fun..

I drive slow in city. One day I am with a friend, his first time in milly. We were late and he said maybe I should go little faster. And just by chance he said that just before I got into the highway getting ready for a really good rocketing He was so scared when he saw the constant uninterrupted torque

[ME2000]

2nd gear of 2.3 is very tall. Few could keep up with it from 1-2 shift to 2-3 shift. The problem with the first is the limited boost. We need to address this issue somehow. I am sure with no boost limit and with a simple intake 2.3 can make 0-60 in 6.5-7 secs.

Fortunately we have race tracks all around here. There are lights at the highway enterances. There are two lanes drops to one lane immediately after the flag (light). Just like this one in the middle of the map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source...mp;t=k&z=18

When it turns green you can easily make a 0-60 drag race with the guy next to you I always do

Most cars just beat me in 1st gear but if I know the car next to me (if I am trying prolly I know) I keep calm knowing that I am gonna beat the **** out in the 2nd ) It is soo much fun..

I drive slow in city. One day I am with a friend, his first time in milly. We were late and he said maybe I should go little faster. And just by chance he said that just before I got into the highway getting ready for a really good rocketing He was so scared when he saw the constant uninterrupted torque [/b]

Yeah second gear in this car is a beast. It is long. Yeah I know about the limited boost in 1st (8 psi), but 2nd (14psi) makes up for it. BTW Saint are there any 7-11s where you stay @? I was wondering because in Orlando where my older sis stays they have FIVE different octane ratings! 87 (reg), 88 (super reg), 89 (mid grade), 91 (premium), and 93 (super premium). My question is, Why is it like that? Of course between the normal octane ratings (87,89,91) its 12 cents apart, but with the extra 2 it makes going from one octane to the next octane just 6 cents different. Premium doesnt make any difference to me. People are always complaining about it, and keep telling me it's gonna eat my wallet. I'm just spending an extra 3-4 bucks filling the milly up with premium than I would with regular. Half that with midgrade. I've never ran anything in the milly less than premium. I don't think its worth it. Next year I'm thinking about visiting the sis and the kids and fill my milly up with 93. I don't see 93 here. Just 91. Now there IS a chevron station by me and i THINK its 93. I need to check it out. I wonder if there will be a noticeable difference in 91/93...?

EDIT: I noticed when its cold and the car hasn't warmed up that when I'm driving it'll hold second gear until 35mph (and thats when it hits 3K rpms). And there's a street thats 25 mph and another one thats 35 mph. The slower one is closer to school. And driving @ 30 mph when the milly is ice cold @ 2.5 rpms is loud (s'charger wise) lol. I like it but it seems like im over revving which is normal for a cold car to do until its warm. Just a little tidbit I noticed. I usually speed up past 35 mph (3K rpms) so it'll just change into 3rd. Otherwise its humming along.