Do you believe in God?

[classic_martini]

and the flaw that shoots it down every time is that a wristwatch is not alive, it does not contain the ability to divide and multiply as cells changing slowely over time, [/b]

Obviously you'vew never heard of The Swatch?

[//BHRpowered]

*sigh* yes I have classic, infact I mentioned it in some earlier post in 1 ofthe religion threads floating around.

the process is described, infact in detail, the difference is its not flashing across cnn so the general public has no idea.

some animals develope longer legs to run faster. infact a prime example in humans is your ears. If you notice how small people can wiggle there ears and some cannot, but most apes can is because in the days of long past we lived mostly in the tree's only coming down for food or to run to another tree(during the period where we were inbetween clearly ape and man, just not sure of the name) we started standing up right to look over the long grass to see foes, however we would move our ears to hear something coming better, the same way a dog or whatever will move there ears extremely freely now, which was not always the case. Same thing with wisdom teeth and tonsils.

as things aren't needed, or become needed we very very slowely adapt, in some humans it hasn't yet been full removed. 1 could even argue that american obesisty and growig world average weight is evolution. As food is in general is easier to aqquire and more of it is produced we no longer have to work as hard, this is engrained in our brains and genetics and so the following generations are BORN with a higher weight in mind

[millyowner]

It's too easy to say, "This object is (relatively) complex. Because it's difficult for me to understand that someone created it, that must mean it evolved by chance." Gaps of Evolution. [/b]

Pope John Paul some years ago declared evolution the divine method of creation. It was good enough for him. Arguing evolution and creation is sometimes like arguing to a man blind since birth whether a particular wall is green or blue. If you truly believe that evolution is bollocks and have no doubt that everything we know was created over the course of a week by God than more power to you. A man with convictions is few and far between these days. I can go either way, but my mentality gravitates towards views like that of Richard Dawkins, which I guess is considered "dark." Just read the first Amazon.com review for his book The Selfish Gene titled Fascinating, but at times I wish I could unread it. It's really a little too long to cut and paste here, but it is quite enlightening.



I believe that psychologically, humans gravitate towards metaphysical types of conceptualizing...the "god shaped hole" that Mr. Edwards speaks of in his review of the book.



You saying the second law of thermodynamics is wrong?

[eunie]

The basic principle of speciation (creation of new species) through natural selection (preator/prey relationship ... and others) is not a theory anymore, it is absolute fact.

In your country as in ours, you have species of fly, insect plants bugs etc that were not there 200 years ago, they did not exist. They are slight variations of the original but if we can measure this change in just 200 years amongst life with short life spans, imagine what can happen in billions of years to more complex organisms with a longer life span.

Same with viruses and bacteria which are mutating to new variants right now.

The process of mating or division amongst biological systems allows for a survival rate of the offspring which is dependent on, amongst other things how well they are equiped to survive the natural threats that exist around them.

Mutants or variations of the original are born all the time these can be drastic or slight differences between parent and child. Some may have a particular quality that allows them to evade predators a bit better or survive the sunlight better or they don't need as much water or whatever. They will survive to mating/division age and some if not all of their offspring will have that same function through genetic transference.

Others, less well adapted will die sooner, perhaps not get to mating/division age, and not be able to transfer their genes to the next population. Or they are simply replaced by the competing variant in their species who gets all the resources.

Whether we were created through this system is another matter.

[Dallasaurora]

You saying the second law of thermodynamics is wrong?
[/b]

No MillyOwner, but it all depends on your interpretation of entropy as to whether it represents true chaos/disorder or something specific to the area of physics !

[millyowner]

No MillyOwner, but it all depends on your interpretation of entropy as to whether it represents true chaos/disorder or something specific to the area of physics ! [/b]

Nothing to do with physics. Just the progression from order to disorder in the temporal relm. Evolutionary principles are related to temporal changes over ten years or a million years where disorder (simple) progressively becomes order (more complex). They key phrase with entropy is a closed physical system. Evolution doesn't apply to entropy, that was my point.



The only thing wrong with evolutionary theory is that the theory has gaps that cannot as of yet be accounted for. Should we throw out a theory because a few pieces of the puzzle are missing? Well, when it comes to religion, a few pieces of the puzzle aren't mising; ALL the pieces are missing, so any belief system with zero evidence is a metaphysical belief system (aka, an unscientific belief system). A belief system that cannot be argued imperically.



Science is about evidence

Faith is about interpretation of evidence that doesn't exist.



I don't make it a point to attack christianity, but christians are very quick to attack me. What does that say about christianity? It says intolerance and hypocracy...two things Jesus wouldn't do.



I decided a long time ago that a 4,000 year old book and an eccentric preacher on Sunday mornings wasn't going to mold my philisophical belief system for me despite the fact that I was inundated with religion for the first 16 years of my life.

[Dallasaurora]

Hi MillyOwner, please do not feel that I am attacking you or anyone else as that is certainly not my intention. We are merely exchanging views in the lounge. I am not a practising christian or anything like that but at the same time I will not deny my history either.

Yes the evolution theory has gaps...it has VERY BIG GAPS. Should you throw out that theory as you say ? Well, what you are then asking for is to demonstrate an amount of faith in that theory until it is fully proven ?

"Faith is about interpretation of evidence that doesn't exist" (MillyOwner)

So how different is that to a person who believes there is a god ?

"Science is about evidence" (MillyOwner)

I completely agree...science is evidence of intelligent design and order. When you look at it at various levels, you will always see inherent intelligence and design from the construction of a cell to the principles of speed and light.

You talk about religion having all the pieces missing. Well, although that may be a simplistic view, I'm not talkig about religion, I'm talking about God specifically. Religion has a lot to answer for, which is why I don't blame people for the attitude they have toward it.

But the existence of God...that is a different matter all together. The only point that I am trying to make is that there is so much evidence that points towards his existence in the universe around us.

Whatever you wish to believe MillyOwner is fine by me. Like I said, before I don't really feel that God has to prove or justify his existence to anyone. And just because people don't believe he's there, doesn't mean he's not there (poor grammar but you know what I mean !).

[millyowner]

You gotta love the intelligent design crowd though. So upbeat and positive. Looking for God in everything...and finding Him...in everything.

Something like the Big Bang creating everything as we know it is compared to a printing press exploding and the billions of letters falling from the sky into place to form an unabriged English dictionary without a single misspelling. Is it not possible that the temporal nature of our universe is to create complexity from randomness? Is belief that all the design and complexity we know of stems from randomness inherently anti-God?

[Skiusa2005]

I'd be curious to hear the opinions from those who practice other forms of organized religions that are not based on current era christian beliefs.....

[//BHRpowered]

you peole simply amaze me with your unwillingness to ironical open up and see the light of the truth. jesus was a fucking good sales person.